Talk:Etruscan language

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Verbs section seems to be misleading

The subsection "Present active" in particular seems to convey a rather misleading impression of the nature of Etruscan verbal morphology:

"Etruscan used a verbal root with a zero suffix or -a without distinction to number or person: ar, ar-a, "he, she, we, you, they make"."

Consider on the contrary the following rather more nuanced summary discussion of present scholarly knowledge, and lack thereof, of Etruscan verbal morphology:

"The repetitive nature of most Etruscan inscriptions is such that very few distinctively different verb forms are available for analysis. Indeed, probably the only really certain verbal suffix is -ce. It must not be assumed, however, that the paucity of the verbal data from inscriptions reflects an impoverished verb system in the language; indeed, judging from the variety of verbal stems to which the recurring -ce is added, it is more likely that the Etruscan verb had a more complicated structure than the noun." ( https://www.britannica.com/topic/Etruscan-language/Grammatical-characteristics )

I think a summary in this article along the lines of the above paragraph of the britannica.com article would be much more accurate than the current content of the "Verbs" section, and especially of the "Present active" section, of the article. Skummafremdygest (talk) 17:00, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There have been a lot of advances in our understanding of Etruscan in the last few decades that don't seem to be reflected in the bit from Britannica. Have you read any of the recent scholarship in the field, or are you for some reason just assuming that the EB is the sum total of everything that can be known about anything?Johundhar (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Piacenza Liver

The short paragraph detailing the Piacenza Liver is corrupt. The paragraph's second sentence comprises irrelevant matter apparently derived from the Cippus Perusinus. If no-one else alters it, I may edit and rewrite the section myself. Nuttyskin (talk) 14:15, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Letter D - used or not?

I saw that in a revision on July 19, User:Salpynx removed the letter D from table of consonants simply with explanation "Etruscan only has voiceless stops". I will not dispute that statement which is indeed correct, but using that to argue removal of D is a non sequitur - the table previously said that Etruscan used both T and D to represent phoneme /t/ (like it used three letters C, K, Q to represent one phoneme /k/, in an identical manner to Latin). The graphic used () was apparently created after a source that is now long dead so I can't confirm anything. For the time being I've thought to restore the table back to how it was before but it would be good to find sources which support or reject the usage of D as an optional letter for /t/, as well as maybe a short explanation after the table on the usage (was it a positional variant? or did some inscriptions use T and others D?) 178.58.48.102 (talk) 08:08, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

When I removed the 'd' from the table of consonants I had assumed it was functioning as a voiced stop in a phonetic table alongside the unvoiced 't' and I thought I was simply making the table agree with the article body.

I hadn't considered it might be a hypothetical alternate transliteration of an unvoiced stop because as far as I'm aware 'd' is not used in any standard transcription of Etruscan, and that the symbol represented by the graphic named 'EtruscanD-01' only appears in Etruscan inscriptions as an 'r' variant, or in model alphabets (not strictly part of the Etruscan language), but that's not directly relevant to this article. I was primarily removing the 'd' as it has no meaning in Etruscan. The current article needs better inline sources, but I think a lot of it is coming from multiple Rix works. Using one already cited: Rix, Helmut (2004). Woodard, Roger D. (ed.). The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the World's Ancient Languages. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 947. ISBN 978-0-521-56256-0. Rix doesn't list a 'd' grapheme when setting out Etruscan phonetic tables, or when listing the "The Etruscan alphabet of archaic inscriptions", (Table 39.1, p. 945).

Just now I found an archived version of the source image of https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:EtruscanD-01.svg -- https://web.archive.org/web/20040929221340/http://www.weikopf.de/Tabelle1.JPG It's not a good source because it's not clear where the scan is taken from, but even in that table the D symbol is NOT in the Etruscan column, so as far as I can see, no one has ever claimed 'd' is an Etruscan letter, and it never should have appeared on this page in the first place. I'm happy to let someone else remove the 'd' and D from the table again, I don't believe it is possible to find a source to justify their inclusion. Salpynx (talk) 04:04, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Etruskians

Are helleno-pelasgians. Their language is an ancient greek dialect. The Tyr in Tyrrhenian and the tru in Etruskian is the same... For to rub. Helleno-pelasgian TYR TOR TRO TUR : TURn, TURbo, TORture, turban, Tour, torbulent, ...able to build castles and towers you need to rub, destroy stones. The E in Etruskian is the same like the et in Eteokretes, etymology, veteran, eternal, ethnos , for well known for long time, true....etc... 77.13.149.98 (talk) 15:40, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, they were most definitely aliens, like the Egyptians. The -an in Etruscan is the same as the one in Martian. Also ETRuscan TR, RT MaRTian and the initial E is pronounced the same as the I in Martian and they also adored Mars. They were Tyrrhe-Copto-Martian.

All jokes apart, if you think something is wrong with an article, you can edit it yourself instead of ranting on talk page. However, be aware that pseudoscientific deliriums will be reverted.

(They/We are aliens, not Greeks) -- VerusPhoebusApollo (talk) 19:37, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Person or not?

"Adding the suffix -(a)ce' to the verb root produces a third-person singular active, which has been called variously a "past", a "preterite", a "perfect." In contrast to Indo-European, this form is not marked for person."

Which is it? Is it 'a third-person singular active', or is it 'not marked for person'? 62.73.69.121 (talk) 21:47, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]